Geoffs Genealogy Update 3 September 2013
Tuesday September 3rd, 2013 | Geoff
We spent the first weekend in August in Carmarthenshire. Nothing unusual in that, as we usually visit this beautiful part of Wales several times each year, sometimes looking for family history information and at other times just enjoying the wonderful countryside.
On this occasion we had a really smashing time. We broke our journey on 2 August at Tredegar House, a National Trust property near Newport. The weather was splendid, and we enjoyed spending a few hours exploring this quite magnificent pile, situated close to the M4 motorway. I would definitely recommend a visit to this site.
Saturday 3 August was the day of the annual Maliphant Jamboree, which this year was held at Kidwelly. Kidwelly is where my mother in law was born and spent some of her formative years in her family home, so it is a place that we have visited quite a number of times over the years. On this occasion our party took over the Masons Arms pub for a large part of the day, 68 of us enjoying a buffet lunch in this hostelry and also some time in the garden.
After meeting in the pub, and some serious mingle time, the day’s events started with a tour round Kidwelly Castle, guided by a man from Cadw. We have looked around this lovely castle many times over the years, and I have long thought it extremely under-rated. When people alk of impressive Welsh fortifications they speak of Harlech, Caerphilly , Caernarvon etc, but for me Kidwelly is right up there. Anyway, it was great to learn a bit about the history of the castle, and to hear that there are records to show that Maliphants played a part in its construction, if only in a fairly menial way.
After this tour our party moved on to Kidwelly’s church – St Mary’s – where we all enjoyed a very interesting talk from the vicar on the history of the church. No real Maliphant content to this, but very interesting, as Jan’s Maliphant tree contains some baptisms, burials etc that took place in this church. As most of the attendees were family historians there was then the inevitable perambulation around the churchyard, seeking all those Maliphant graves, before we all adjourned to the pub for a cup of tea to round off the day.
This was a lovely day on a number of levels. It was a chance to meet family members, some of whom we have not met up with for a while, whilst at the same time being an opportunity to gather more family history information. On top of that, the talks were very informative, and interesting in their own right, and the chance to explore this lovely Welsh town was not to be missed.
Congratulations to Pauline, Bruce, and all the people who worked to put on this event. It will certainly be a hard act to follow.
As far as my research goes, during August I have spent quite a lot of time gathering information about our Jacobson forebears.
James Jacobson married Mary Mitchell in London in 1722, and they then lived at King Street, in the parish of St Botolph Aldgate. I had previously found entries relating to them and their children in the registers of that church. I also knew that when James died his will (probate 1759) stated that he lived in Peckham, then a rural retreat in South London but now a bustling part of South London. I have tended to assume that Peckham was James’ rural retreat in his last years, and was interested to find out how long he had lived there.
With this in mind I searched the Land Tax records that are available online, and found a large number of records dating from 1731 to 1754, all showing James living at King Street. The only record relating to James that I found after that was dated 1758, and it stated that the property previously occupied by James Jacobson was empty. Thus, I surmise that he probably moved to Peckham around 1757. I don’t actually know when he was born, but based on the information we have my working hypothesis is c1692, on which basis he would have been over 60 when he moved to Peckham. A good age for a man in the 18th century.
There are a couple of other things I have recently discovered about James. I may have mentioned some of them previously, but will quickly mention them anyway, as I think they are interesting. I had long been aware that James was a Broker, but from his son’s apprenticeship agreement and a couple of other sources I can now say that he was a Pawn Broker. Probably not the most popular man in King Street!.
I have discovered that he served on the Parish Vestry Committee from at least 1731. The last entry I found that included him was dated 15 November 1754. I found these records on the wonderful London Lives website, which has also provided me with the following information about the Vestry Committees:
The vestry formed the fundamental unit of decision making for each parish, and acted as a miniature legislature for parochial government. Vestries took a number of different forms, including open vestries in which all inhabitants had at least a theoretical right to participate, and a wide variety of closed vestries, in which membership was restricted by wealth, local standing or local tradition. Many closed vestries recruited new members to a specific number (frequently twenty-four) on their own authority, creating a kind of self-perpetuating oligarchy.
The vestry had a number of legal obligations, which are reflected in their minutes. The vestry was responsible for appointing parish officers, including churchwardens, overseers of the poor, sextons and scavengers. Depending on local arrangements the vestry could also be responsible for constables and nightwatchmen (in the City of London these officers were appointed at ward level).1 It was the vestry that approved the annual church and poor rates, and to which accounts were submitted at Easter each year (though in the case of poor law accounts, these needed the additional approval of a Justice of the Peace).
So, you will see, our James was a pretty important man in his community.
I’ve found out quite a bit more about various members of the Jacobson clan, but as I’ve probably rambled on for quite long enough at the moment I think I’ll leave it until my next blog entry before revealing more.
Hello Geoff,
I am the G G granddaughter of Sarah Maliphant b 1799, daughter of Charles Maliphant and Dinah Williams. What a shame I did not know of this reunion as I was, not to far away, near Carmarthen. I would be interested to know of your connection.
Best Wishes
Carol
Hi Carol
Sorry I’ve taken a few days to reply to your comment, but we’ve been away. My wife is a Maliphant descendant, hence my attendance at last year’s Maliphant Jamboreehttp://www.maliphant.info/p1.htm. She is descended from Ann Maliphant (1836-1918), the daughter of John William Maliphant & Anne Evans. Ann married Evan Hughes in 1855 in Kidwelly, and they were my wife’s 2 x great grandparents.
If you are interested in the Maliphants you may like to look at the following website:
http://www.maliphant.info/p1.htm
Geoff
Thank you Geoff. Would your wife’s name be Mavis by any chance? I have looked at that site as it was recommended to me by GFHS. Unfortunately, I could not find any record for Sarah. Sarah died in June 1872 and David in 1867. She and the Rev David Jones are buried in the old Capel Sul graveyard along with one of their sons, Henry Maliphant Jones. I am a descendant of her son David George Jones 1833-1892. The Rev David Jones was instrumental in enlarging the old Capel Sul and also founded Sardis chapel at Trimsaron. He was supposed to be a formidable preacher. We ( a cousin and I) are desperated to find her baptismal record so that we can be sure of her parentage. We think they are Charles and Dinah but there is no parish record. Living aboroad I am not able to search nonconformist records for Llansamlet and Swansea. Would appreciate any help you can give.
est Wishes
Carol
Dear Carol
Thanks for your comment. My wife is not Mavis – her name is Janet. She replies to your message as follows: Mavis Gibson is a member of Glamorgan Family History Society. Her maiden name was Maliphant and she has done lots of work on the Maliphants, producing a book containing lots of family trees. I am a great great grandaughter of Ann Maliphant who married Evan Hughes. Mavis is descended from John Maliphant, brother of my Ann. Ann was a daughter of John Maliphant & Ann Evans. Evan Hughes & Ann are also buried at Capel Sul. My great grandmother – Margaret – who married John Rees of Castle Stores, Kidwelly, is also buried at Capel Sul. My mother – Iris Haves nee Rees – lived on Water Street, Kidwelly until she was 6, when the family moved to Loughor, although she went back to Kidwelly quite often.
Regarding Sarah, I don’t know where the birth date of 01 Dec 1799 came from as Geoff & I have looked on Ancestry and Find My Past, and can’t find a nything. Mavis would be the best person to contact about that. Perhaps the date came from an old family bible? mavis’s email address is m.gibson124@btinternet.com.
Is your cousin David Jones? we have also had an email from him regarding Sarah. If he isn’t your cousin we can put him in touch with you, as he is obviously closely related to you.
Best wishes Janet Culshaw nee Haves.
Dear Janet,
I thought I had put a post here but not sure how your site works. Yes, David is my cousin and between us and Mavis we have been conferring re Sarah. Re the birth date 1st Dec 1799. ON FMP, we found a death for the same date in Llansamlet PRs which have been transcribed by Glam FHS. Since then Mavis sent us a Bishop’s transcript which clearly shows a baptism for the same date, for Sarah, father Charles (no mother named) and dittoed the above baptisms. David and I think, that the Llansamlet PR transcription on FMP, must have been wrongly transcribed. There was also some confusion who were her parents. There were 2 cousins, who appeared to be very close, as Charles married to Mary Williams, leaves the use of his house to Charles and Dinah (sister to Mary), in his will. Mavis thought that Sarah may have been the daughter of Charles Maliphant and Mary Williams but this cannot be correct as Mary died before Sarah was born. We can only conclude that she is the daughter of Charles Maliphant and Dinah Williams. Hope you had a good Christmas and wishing you a Happy New Year.
Best Wishes
Carol
Dear Carol,
This David Jones and Sarah Maliphant are not close relations to me, but, if I have tracked the correct David Jones from Cwmarch, Cilcennin Parish, CGN, Wales, he is the son of John Jones Michael (ref, CFHS burials 1813-1837) (1755-Dec 1830, buried 28 Feb 1831 – I guess the ground was frozen) and his wife Nancy. My connection is through the Michael surname which lasted in Llanarth and Llanfihangel Ystrad Parishes until the end of the 19th Century. Some moved to the USA, where I live. A 1887 oration by Daniel I Jones of Ohio, editor of The Cambrian will give you more information about John Jones Michael who was born at Gwrthwynt Uchaf, Trefilan, CGN, Wales but buried at Caer Droia, Cilcennin at this URL:
http://ohio.llgc.org.uk/diglib/diglib_syllwr.php?userfunction=browse&itemref=TRH00001&image=1.14&imtype=
The brother of John Jones called David Jones, who stayed behind in Wales, was buried as David Michael on part of Esgerwen fawr, Llanarth Parish, CGN in 1820. His grandson Thomas Michael migrated with his family to Ebensburg, PA, the other big Welsh spot, in May 1849.
In higher levels of this website, you will find photos of the Joneses of Tyn Rhos, which name they took from a placename they lived at in Nantcwlle Parish. See URL:
http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/SN578533
for Tyn Rhos’s location.
I would be glad to share information.
Yours truly,
Steve Shipe
Hello Steve
My wife has had a look at the interesting information that you sent us. Unfortunately she can’t clearly see where this Sarah Maliphant & David Jones fit in on the Maliphant tree, but it does appear that they are not on my wife’s direct line. Sorry we can’t add to what you already know.
Dear Steven,
I find it very strange that, having taken the time to provide considerable information, that you have not bothered to respond to my messages. However, I must inform you that the above information “The brother of John Jones called David Jones, who stayed behind in Wales, was buried as David Michael on part of Esgerwen fawr, Llanarth Parish, CGN in 1820. His grandson Thomas Michael migrated with his family to Ebensburg, PA, the other big Welsh spot, in May 1849” is incorrect. David Jones died in 1867 and is buried in the old Capel Sul graveyard in Kidwelly.
Here are my notes on David Jones, son of John John Michael and Nancy:
Later Reverend at Kidwelly, CMN, Wales
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CMN/Hanes10.html
After being 2 years without a minister they gave a call to Mr David Jones, from Neuaddlwyd College, and he was ordained on 18th May 1824. He laboured diligently under many handicaps, and he didn’t labour in vain. In 1831 they rebuilt the chapel, and made it a capacious and convenient place, it measured 44 feet square. Sardis chapel was also raised in the same time frame. Mr Jones died on 23rd June 1867, aged 67.
Biographical Notes *
JOHN ABEL … son of William Abel … preacher at Llanybri …Born in 1770 … admitted at Llanybri … went to Carmarthen College … ordained at Capel Sul, Cydweli in 1794 … died in 1819, aged 49
DAVID JONES … born in Cilcennin in 1800 … admitted there aged 12 … went to Neuaddlwyd College … ordained Capel Sul in 1824 … laboured there for 43 years … died in 1867, aged 67
*Only a shortened version of these biographical and professional notes have been translated.
Hi Steven,
I am the great great granddaughter of David Jones. I would be interested to know, given the preponderance of Joneses what proof you have that connects him to your family and his parents . My email is hendersonc4125@gmail.com. I do hope you will get in touch.
Best Wishes
Carol
My great great great grandparents are David and Sarah Jones , married St Marys Church Kidwelly May 11 1827
Hi Julia
Do your David & Sarah Jones link to anybody on our family tree?
Regards
Geoff